Every Founder NEEDS A Sparring Partner

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1. 0:00
   Wes Mathews

   John Glon, who has spent the last 13 years building Great Lakes essential power from the ground up, but also as a leadership team coach with Bloom Growth, but helping the people grow so that the company grows.

2. 0:12
   John Glon

   And that's what the differentiator with Bloom Growth is that we are focusing on the human to get the most out of the business. I now know I was just running from the business. I wasn't actively engaged emotionally. I was just in a ball, you know, a lot of it was just beating myself up because I thought I'd really failed the company. But when you start measuring your vendors and your clients against that, you start realizing, man, it sucks doing business with people that suck. Look back two years, I'm like, wow, I just buried the company because we went into this.

   And my stubbornness, because you're just thinking of the big pie. But you haven't thought through all the steps potentially. The best mechanism is just finding the right hand man or woman that you guys can really have that conversation with together inside the company.

3. 0:53
   Wes Mathews

   This is the unfiltered truth about entrepreneurship, raw, no BS, no sugarcoating. Welcome to Entrepreneur Intel. I'm your host, Wes Mathews. Each episode we'll learn from experienced founders and uncover the top 5% learnings that led to their success in all things personal, family and business. This show is sponsored by Stealth Consulting, delivering clear marketing strategies, ROI, and no surprises. So super excited for today's guest. I want to introduce John Glon, who has spent the last 13 years building Great Lakes essential power from the ground up, learning through successes and setbacks, but also as a leadership team coach with Bloom Growth, helping entrepreneurs and leadership teams scale with clarity, purpose and strong human connection.

   But also you are a certified working genius facilitator, helping companies scale further through human flourishing. So at the core believes leaders thrive when they reconnect with who they are, not just the roles they serve. When leaders operate from fullness rather than depletion, everything around them grows. So John, dude, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thanks for having me on, Wes. Well, I want to get right to it. So you have three kids that you all love the same Great Lakes essential, Bloom Growth, genius facilitator.

   Which one do you love a little better? Well, actually, I love my four children far more. I need to make sure I do that plug and my wife. So that's assumed.

4. 2:20
   John Glon

   So yeah, fair enough. But I need to make sure I get clips of that and share it with my wife so she knows it. Where my future lies is the Bloom Growth coaching, right? I've with my base business. It has been wonderful for me. It's been wonderful for my people. The time has come for me to pass that along to my employees to let them share in the entrepreneurial journey. And so we're going through that a little bit. And again, that's been a kind of a confidential but not at the same time, part of that.

   And the reason why I want to do that is because I, you know, as a Bloom Growth coach, right, that's an operating system, just like entrepreneurial operating system, iOS, which I know we're going to get into, which I know you're aware of, what's allowed me to really step into and want to be the Bloom Growth coach is because I ran my company through us. And I had an implementer. My coach, this is phenomenal. And I saw how he did things. And I realized, wow, I can really do that.

   And I can really, I really enjoy helping not just companies grow, because that's, that's centered just on business, but helping the people grow so that the company grows. And that's what the difference here with Bloom Growth is that we are focusing on the human to get the most out of the business.

5. 3:26
   Wes Mathews

   And that really scratches my itches. You know, with 13 years building Great Lakes essential power, at what point were you like, okay, like as an entrepreneur, I want to move on or like, why not just double down, stay there? Like what, what sort of happened there, we started to look for the next thing or another thing. It's interesting, because this is the first really public foray that I've actually, you know, a lot of people know about it, but publicly,

6. 3:51
   John Glon

   with some of my partners, I haven't announced it. And, and we're going to so it's not a big deal. But, you know, me actively saying some things out loud and in a form like this has been a little different. So I would say it was certainly a little after COVID. And, you know, we're in construction business, we sell heavy electrical equipment. And it just we had such a rough time in the construction industry, with cash flow. And so I made some bets went to the bank asked for some cash to see us through kind of the tough times, right, we didn't want to slow down our momentum with people in our structure.

   And I was a little stubborn in some of that really burned through all that cash. And at the same time, I realized I was running away from the business because it was there were some tough things that were happening with the people we were dealing with, the manufacturer, etc. And I now know I was just running from the business, I wasn't really, I wasn't actively engaged. Emotionally, I was just in a ball, you know, a lot of it was just beating myself up, because I thought I'd really failed the company.

   And now I'm in a mound of debt, and didn't really see a way out. And that translates into family and everything else that we you know, that I put my family through some things on the financial side of things that I'm, you know, didn't don't love, they got to learn a few things along with me, which is a great learning for me. But what I, at that time, I just wanted to get the hell out, right? It was like, it was a noose around my neck.

   Because it was the debt and again, some of the people we were dealing with, and I just realized I don't you know, we talk about core values and all those things that I know you're gonna you know, very well, and we do that internally as a for our people is, is measuring up our people against our core values. But when you start measuring your vendors and your clients against that, you start realizing, man, it sucks doing business with people that suck, right, as humans. And that's partially that's what I was just running from.

   And what I, I have a personal coach that helped me realize that I was just running, it was a common theme of mine, I was just running. And I said, I wanted to get out. So I went to my team and said, hey, I want you to buy me out, went to talk to a couple strategic people said, I'm looking to get out. And this was a few years ago. And that was when I was in the runaway mode. And through the years of me going through this process, I realized that yeah, I was bored.

   Yeah, I don't, I don't love parts of the business. I love some of the business, but there are parts that of the business model that I just don't, I didn't love. And so I was just telling myself, that's why I wanted to get out. You know, but ultimately, it just wasn't scratching my itches. From a human perspective, I wanted to help people. And I was running out of ways to do that within my own business. Because I would, I would scratch that itch, I would do some things with my people, like helping create their personal plan.

   It's like taking the EOS VTO or the bloom growth, growth plan, and doing it from a personal level, so that they would create a list of their dreams and then plan out their, their family, like they like we would with our business. So that was scratching a lot of itches for me. And I love that. But then I ran out of people to do that with. And then I was like, well, you know, shit, how the hell do I, how do I find other people to go do this?

   And that fell into lots of introspection. That's when I ended up going to the mountain with coach Bob. Again, there's just a ton of self reflection to figure out what in the world I really want to go do. And, and now it's, it's no longer, I'm running from the business. I am now excited to hand it to people that really have a passion for it and can get a taste of the entrepreneurial journey.

7. 7:24
   Wes Mathews

   Thank you for that share. Like that's, that's, that's deep, you know, a lot of people, you know, that's, that's the rawness of being an entrepreneur. And, you know, I want to pick on something there though, because it resonates with me that I think a lot of people you start to talk core values. First of all, when I heard a core values, I thought about like, integrity, trust, and like all those posters on the wall, right? But I think the realization is, is when you have really good core values and you're living your core values, you just, you brought something up interesting that when I first implemented my thing, right, my operating system, it was very much like, this is who we are.

   This is what we do. But you said, when you start looking at vendors and outside people, right? Like that's really interesting. Because when I first started this journey, I never thought about that. It was always like, this is who we are. We only, our tribe does this, but you know, at what point did you have that epiphany of like, wait a minute now, like this, this seeps out of us and who we do business with? Because that sounds to me like that wasn't giving you the heartburn.

   You know, once I just, I, I stopped and felt because we were doing some of the, again, I had my coach for EOS, right? My implementer.

8. 8:25
   John Glon

   And we were just going through the normal core values exercise. And of just talking through what our core values are, are we hiring, are we firing, are we promoting people within our organization based on that? And sometimes when you really break through the, you know, not the pay to play ones, like you were saying, integrity and trust, like that's just, you got to be a good human, either you have that or you don't. And you don't want to be around that kind of person anyway. But once you start getting to some things that are real, and not making them up, and not because they're just me, but what does the company feel like?

   You know, we had, again, just had both vendors, humans, and then customers that were just treating us like shit, treating my people like shit. And I just really started grinding on me, right? I could get on the phone and I could take it. Then I started taking a toll on me. And I just, and I just, it was just an epiphany through me at one time. And I was like, wow, you know, this is a friend chooser or a people chooser, right? When I actually, when I got connected to Bloom Growth, that's where it really kind of seated in because it is, we make it more about just ourselves.

   And we look at the whole grand scheme of things. And quite frankly, the more we've distanced ourselves from the client and vendor, it's amazing how much more joyful the team is, and more we're actually getting done. And one, by the way, was our largest client that we had to let go. And it was the most freeing thing for our people. For us, it was scary, but we've displaced it and then some. And, you know, it's the same conversation I have with my clients that they internally, how slow people are to move on from someone who doesn't meet their core values.

   It screams, they don't meet them when I'm in meetings with them, right? They're in a meeting. You can tell they're like the odd person out. We at companies don't do anything about it. You hear the same vendors when I'm in a quarterly session that are giving heartburn and same customers and how freeing it is to give someone the push to say, guys, is it worth doing business with this person if they're that terrible to deal with? Because it's dragging your company down. It's amazing how many conversations and how many things we do in business actually correlate right back to that.

   And you're right, most people, if they do have core values and they use them in the right way that aren't just slapped on their website or on their wall, they're focused internally on it. And when you flip that switch and start using that lens from the holistic of all the humans that we deal with in business,

9. 10:55
   Wes Mathews

   it's amazing. I call it multiplication by subtraction, not addition by subtraction. It's interesting to think about, right? Because what's cool is it's like universal language. It's not just because you were in the construction world that applied to you. Like you could insert any business, but that's super scary though too, right? Like you're an entrepreneur, this client's annoying or just doesn't fit your culture, beating up your team, but it's like, well, this is like our largest client. And if we lose them, like we have to backfill.

   So there's an opportunity, right? To like earn a lot of credibility as a leader, but then you have the dilemma of backfilling that work. But I guess my specific ask would be, do you regret any of it, right? Like firing that client while you're going through it is super hard, challenging, but reflecting back, like is it, no, that was a perfect decision or, you know, any experience you're there. That's a good question.

10. 11:44
    John Glon

    And I think that the learning would be more of reframing it just in the way you said it, that I heard it was we did it to do it. And part of it happened with us and for us, right? It was kind of so circumstantial that it just walked itself out. But if I flipped it to the point where you were saying, Hey, we got to go grow and, and aside from this, I think some of our own language didn't match that. We kind of went into a shell at first, like, Oh shit, what are we going to go do?

    Versus guys, now this frees us up mentally, emotionally, right? It's a rallying cry to go change it, right? I think that's where we could have done it better. Because I think we took longer to backfill that than had we really used that language in the right way. Not just language, not just words, but, you know, the meaning behind what we actually did. And, you know, you said this most companies, certainly small ones, every all revenue seems like it's good revenue. And it is a hard spot when you're small is to come to that realization that even though you think you need it all, you know, at least have a plan to make that change.

    You know, I'm not just suggesting potentially flipping a switch because that can be tough, but I have a plan. What are you doing outside of it to get someone else?

11. 12:57
    Wes Mathews

    It's kind of a forcing mechanism, right? It's great that you were able to see it as a leader because sometimes it's like, I don't care. Like they can treat us like whatever they're paying us. Yeah, I had a sales guy many, many years ago that he was the number one producer, just killing it, like brought in so much money, but like he beat my team up, right? And I was delusional because I'm like, you know, I think like I'm, you know, we're going to dive into like EOS and bloom growth and stuff, but like I'm a visionary entrepreneur and I typically default to relationships and growth and revenue, right?

    Bringing clientele in and, uh, he was bringing clients in, but like he just beat the team up. And it finally just, I finally had, like, I finally woke up one day and realized like people were telling me like, this is terrible for the culture. And I was so scared to fire them. And we just kind of went down that path. And I was like, I wish I would have done this years earlier. Like it was just this weight off my back and people were like, so-and-so had left.

    They didn't, they weren't, they left because of it, but I thought they left because of something else that, you know, so.

12. 13:58
    John Glon

    When you did that, what did, how the team react when you did that? Oh, I was like the hero.

13. 14:02
    Wes Mathews

    Like finally, like, why did it take you this long? And, you know, I kind of had to put my tail between the legs as a leader and say like, I'm going to do better. Like I, you know, I wasn't really living up to our core values and, you know, please have an open line of communication. Like it was an opportunity for growth. Yeah. So let's talk about that, right? So like, you know, that, that kind of led to your new chapter. Let's, I'm going to call it your new chapter.

    You know, so like you, you mentioned you had a really good implementer, right? Mike Kotsis, I think you mentioned, which I've met him. Great, great dude. So with all that learning and stuff, like if EOS and this implementer were really impactful, like why bloom growth? I'm just curious as to like, why, you know, I actually, I was, how it actually came to be was I always said that I wanted to be an EOS implementer, not always, but right after I've been in that EOS community for quite a while, right?

14. 14:51
    John Glon

    That ancestral larger community with a lot of implementers and a lot of vendors that serve into that community. And, um, you know, I had some people just say, Hey, maybe I said I wanted to, and then they were like, well, maybe that's not for you. And I'm like, well, shit. At first, I was like, you saying I'm not like, I can't do it. And then after some more questions, it was like, Hey, no, how it's set up is might not be what you want. Cause they knew I had some other things that I wanted to go do.

    Um, and, um, and so I was actually doing working genius certification because I really resonate with me and it was easy for me to implement with, with organizations. And so I actually, uh, Dick got hired to do a facilitation for all of bloom growth. Cause the bloom growth is actually a software company that happens to now have a operating system and a coaching community. And I was doing a working genius facilitation for their leadership team and their ownership team and actually facilitated throughout their whole company.

    At the time there was 80 some employees and, uh, they did a full day session with the leadership team and the ownership team, um, through how we're going to integrate this to the company. They said, we just launched a operating system and a coaching platform. We think you'd be great at it. Uh, cause I had told him I want to be an EOS implementer, right? And it was just like this perfect click this perfect time. That was September 29th in 2023. And I was in Toronto and I just remembered the flight back that next morning.

    Just so excited. Like, okay, I have a chapter. I have a, what I've wanted, but in a different way, uh, because they were really adding in, um, you know, again, just an evolution, right? EOS is again, fantastic at what it does. Um, some of the other ones that have all done and Gina Wickman is the best, but there's just been some offshoots, right? Some improvements of it and bloom growth. What really resonated with me is they were going from a human centered place from a, uh, a, a human trust perspective to get a high performing team.

    And the focus is on growing. And if you're not focused on growing, then, you know, then go ahead and do a system that just allows you to operate functionally well. So that's ultimately circumstantially how it, how it worked out. But, um, you know, but, but now the, the criteria to become a bloom growth coach is a little different than some of the other ones, right? You have to be an entrepreneur and transitioning to another part of life and having had to grow a company a certain size.

    And, and so it just, it really resonated with me. Um, and again, how it, how it gives me opportunity to, to work with other teams, uh, work in other industries and really just get people to achieve their dreams through their business.

15. 17:26
    Wes Mathews

    It's kind of lonely being an entrepreneur and you can be like, Oh, poor, poor, Mr. Successful entrepreneur, right? Like, but to your point, like there's so many things that happen behind the scenes and, you know, people only see like what they want to see or like the social media reels, right? But it's challenging, you know, this economy is challenging. There's always had wins good, bad, or indifferent, but you know, on the, when you think about coaching, right? And like going through it, been through it, and you're implementing bloom growth, like, what do you see?

    You know, what does a client have to be experiencing where it makes sense? Like you mentioned, you have a coach to, which I want to touch on, but like, just tell me like, why somebody would need a coach of bloom growth or you or like, cause a lot of people are like, yeah, John, I'm fine. Or like things are fine or okay. Or I don't need a coach. I've gotten the company to 5 million, right? Like I don't, yeah. Like, what are you going to do?

    Like, how does that make you feel? Like, how do you respond to that? I think again, most of the time it's, it's, it's almost like clients are coming screaming.

16. 18:31
    John Glon

    So that's when they have a lot of pain for whatever reason, right? Cause most of the time that's that 3 and 5 million range where people don't know how to get past it. Uh, you know, and cause it's back to that loneliness of being an entrepreneur cause everything is on you. And it's, it's so clear to see whenever I talk to folks when that, when that's the case and not implementing an operating system with a coach, right? I think is having someone that helps make people uncomfortable to do what they don't think they should do.

    And it is then it's sharing that loneliness, not just a loneliness, but all the burden that you have as a, as a owner is getting that to be shared with a leadership team. And that's the biggest thing that I get to unlock is, uh, taking all that pain and suffering that people don't see or know getting it out. So the leadership team knows it. And so then how do they actually help and get people, enact other people to help you get through that as an organization?

    Cause you're not going to grow past yourself and you need a next level leadership team to go do that. That was the long-winded part of like mostly it's a pain that's coming to me. So they're either stuck where they are. Um, they don't have any time and you know, or they're trying to figure out how to grow and they just don't know how that's on the negative side on the positive side. It's, it's, they're like, Hey, we're going like crazy. And this is awesome, but I'm seeing something coming around the corner or I am, you know, I just don't know that I have the right leadership team.

    You know, there's one, um, you know, back to when people just say, Hey, I'm fine. Um, I just had a client come back to me. I talked to a year and a half ago that came to me at the end of the year and was like, all right, man. And then we were friends and I had said some things that resonated with him in the past. Like we do have a, which we can talk about a curriculum that is about exiting your company or not really exiting, but an event and how you can exit your company.

    Uh, and it just resonated with him. He's like, okay, I think I'm finally ready because I'm running out of ideas. Um, and he said, the only, the one thing, um, that I need from you is to make me uncomfortable. And that's when I knew when it was going to be a good client fit is because it's someone that understands that, um, not just, Hey, I know that I have all the answers and I'm just coming in and paying you. So my people think we're doing something.

    It's knowing that to do something to get beyond where you are today, it's going to be, there's going to be pain or there's going to be something in there. And that that's really my, my job. And I said, signed up because that is like my job description for you is to make you uncomfortable.

17. 20:58
    Wes Mathews

    Is it exhausting, right? Like I feel like I'm a visionary and like when I spend time with people or invest time with people and I kind of give them my all, like I'm, I'm deranged. Like, how do you deal with that? Or like you are dealing with the top 5% good in the top 5% bad, right? So like, how do you keep that train on the tracks? Cause I, I find that fascinating. Cause it's, it's a lot.

18. 21:30
    John Glon

    And it's actually helping me through clients that I've had an off boarded, um, or, um, whether my choice or theirs, what's really comes back down to the core value thing that, that, that we talked about before. It's now with me, right? It was me launching my practice. Like I want all the practice, you know, my coaching practice, I do want practice. I want to do the work so that I can get better at facilitation and all these other things. But realizing that again, not all clients are good clients just in this, right?

    If, if I have to push someone over the finish line to get to a yes, I'm going to be pushing them the whole way through. So if it's not a with clients that I'm now onboarding, if, if, if it's not a hell yes, and their whole team is all excited, I really don't want them because I don't want to. Cause what will have to happen is I will have to pull them through all the sessions. I will have to pull them through all and make sure they're, Hey, are we really trying to grow or do something different here?

    That does get tiring. Um, but there are breakthroughs. So that's one part that does kind of, that does get, get to flip it for me is in our curriculum that we have that is an over two year program, which is the human flourishing side of it is we do have an element for each and every meeting that I'm a part of that we are trying to get down to at the human level, increasing relationships. And a lot of that is self work. So working on what's triggering us and what's holding us back individually so we can help the team.

    And as we go through like, say the first 90 days, we go through some pretty deep things. And I do like to say that some of meetings, I measure them in tears, uh, because we go there and that really helps with me and my energy is when I get breakthroughs in that because right. The, the, the menagerie, the, you know, the business just acumen of we're setting quarterly priorities and we're doing this and this is what are we doing in sales and finance, right? That's not terribly exciting for me.

    That's just, yeah, we know how to go do this. When we throw in that human element and I'm breaking those leaders, leaders down and breaking that big candy shell that creates those uneasy, just rough meetings. That's what gets me through because again, I know we're cracking. We took a little crisp out of the cell, other shell, and then I continue to work on it as I work with them. And I find that the quarterly strategy sessions now with the clients I have um, are energizing because we're doing some big things.

    Um, right. A lot of it's whether we're helping them send someone else to a new career, meaning go be happy somewhere else because they're the rat in the company, or we just had a huge epiphany about doing a cashflow analysis because again, it's about educating the leadership team. Any times it's the owner is the one that knows the finance game and no one else does. So just a lot of things that I get so many,

19. 24:26
    Wes Mathews

    so much energy from the ahas and the epiphanies that come out of the meetings. Can't probably learn a little bit more about yourself when you lead them.

20. 24:34
    John Glon

    Oh, absolutely. I can't, you know, that's, I'm not just a facilitator that, you know, it's not like I was a teacher somewhere else. Um, and then I just come in and do this and start working with leadership teams, right? I've been through this stuff. I've been through all these things and me doing those exercises myself,

21. 24:50
    Wes Mathews

    that only makes me show up better for them and leaning in for myself. I want to bring up something cause you know, we, we talked about this lightly and I think it's a super important one when you have a leader or people that blame everybody else for problems, right? Like I can reflect on this and I remember a time. It was like before I found EOS or that was like one of my epiphanies. I'm like, everything's outward, right? Everything's falling apart and blowing up. And then I had realization when you can't ever forget.

    It was like, I had so many people on the leadership team and it was like this pointing game of like, who's doing this? Like I was in every seat and like the realization was I was causing every single problem that was happening around me. So like what happened for you when you stopped blaming everybody else? And I want to unpack that a little bit more actually.

22. 25:35
    John Glon

    And actually that's a little piece of the story that I did leave out back, you know, with my running away from the company thing, right? I was part of it was, and I know we connected on this a little bit actually when we first met, you know, you would just exit your business, you were golfing a ton. And I got to be the business guy who was out golfing all the time. And you know, that's a badge of honor that many business owners get to wear, right?

    We finally made it. I'm not working in the business. I got people are making money for me and I'm out golfing like crazy. And then, you know, that's back when this stuff was happening, the Dumber spiral and some of the company and then someone like tapping on the solar like, that's great, but are you growing? I'm like, yeah, no, we're actually doing pretty shitty, but I'm not in the business. And so at that time, that's part of my, my bitterness was I was pointing at guys, we're not doing what we said, what I said we were going to do.

    And they're like, well, you never said it. So part of it was me not setting expectations. And they can't live up to something I don't, I don't share with them, right? It was my own. Well, this is what I think they should go do based on what I know. And they didn't do that. So that was a part of the whole story was me stopping pointing the finger at everyone else and realizing I got to be honest with them and with myself and, and really let some of that stuff go because I was just, it was bitter as hell.

    Again, came into the end of the home, you know, it's just a downward spiral because it's just a snowball of that, that blame game. And then no one feels appreciated. No one feels like they're doing the right thing. Even though I'm a nice person, I don't generally, I don't lead with a heavy hand. But when I back handedly hear my disappointment, you know, they know me. So then it's like, well, okay, I read you. And it's just, again, it's a, just a slippery, slippery slope. So that was a relation that really changed the direction of me altogether.

    And I know you, again, some of our journey has been a little bit paralleled that we've talked through. And, you know, ultimately, that's why I am where I am now, is stopping blaming everyone else.

23. 27:44
    Wes Mathews

    And hindsight, it's like, oh, why did I start doing that sooner? But I mean, I always hear this thing of like, work life, harmony, balance. It's like, no, it's like, your personal stuff, family, business, like, unfortunately, as an entrepreneur, it's, it is what it is. Like they're all together. Like until somebody can prove me wrong, like that's my, so it's like, if I even look at that now through like my family or friends or anything, it's like, what's my part in this? Like what, you know, what can I do?

    Again, I'm not perfect. And I'm, you know, I mess up all the time, but even for you, like here, here we are, like, you know, we're fairly like, educated operating system guys. And yet we still fumble and fall. And like, sometimes you got to go back to the basics, right?

24. 28:24
    John Glon

    Sometimes you need someone else to show you what you don't see. Right? Because even all the work that we've done, you know, again, like you said, work life, the work life balance, you know, it swings in so many different pendulums, because you feel like you're undoing or overdoing one thing. So you slide to the other. And it's hard to find harmony in some cases, it's hard for you to see it yourself when you are resisting off the track or something. So that's where me a coach and or just again, mentors, people, friends that will call you on your stuff is a is a huge piece of finding that for yourself.

25. 28:58
    Wes Mathews

    So is the missing is the missing piece, then, like, let's just use the three to five million, because we mentioned that, like, what I hear in my assumption is you need to transition as a founder to how are you investing in your leadership team and how your leadership team is aligned? Like, is that is that the core focus? Like, I mean, is that at the highest level of, okay, what are you doing to invest here? Because I feel like even myself sitting in that same position now and round two of building a company, it's like, have I done enough?

    Have I connected with my people? Do they have capacity? Like, how do I block and tackle for them? Because we're still very much in the business, all playing key roles as well. But it's like, how do you take a step back and like, change?

26. 29:41
    John Glon

    That's absolutely right. And goes back to where I was saying, let the founder not be alone. It's are you having your next level leadership team? And getting to that point, because we've got it, you can't just flip a switch and do it. It takes time yet to make a decisive move on how to go do that and plan it out. And I know you guys are going through a lot of that now of hiring and doing different things. But you know, what does it need to look like a year or 18 months from now?

    Then how do we go do that? And then not just relying on the people we have today, but being honest with the people we have today? Are they the ones that can take us to that next level or not? Not in a bad way. They can still be a part of the organization, but have they really done this and can they really do it? Have we given them a chance to with some training with some mentorship? Have we done that route to see if they are the right one?

    But if they're not, are we ready to make a move to bring someone that is? Because I think we spend so much time toiling around the people we have or that have been loyal or that have been there from the beginning. That again are great people and they do great things, but they might not be greatest at that role that we really need to lift the lid off this thing. And so it is not a one answer, but it is all about that leadership team. And not to say just focus on leadership team is about folks in that leadership team so that then they can then filter out through the rest of the organization.

    Because I heard of something in what you said, like, you know, you, you know, we as founders, like, we got to make sure we're staying on top of everyone to make sure our relationships, are they strong? Are they learning the best they can? But the more we lift up that leadership team to go do that for the rest of the organization, that really solidifies your question.

27. 31:19
    Wes Mathews

    How do you begin to unpack that, right? As a, as a founder, entrepreneur, where, you know, what got you here might not get you there, you know, Sally's been here since the beginning. You know, I should just put her in that seat, you know, as we grow. And I see this as in three years, like, what's like the first step for an owner, entrepreneur visionary to, like, have a little bit of realization there, like, is there an exercise? Is there like, like, what do you recommend there?

    Because I mean, I, I hear that I see that, but it's like, I think a lot of entrepreneurs avoid. Oh, absolutely. Right. They avoid the hard comp, like, when it comes to that stuff, like you said, you were running from some things. I think it's like, oh, man, Sally, like, she's doing good. And you put a lot of hope in, you know, man, I think I feel right. But you know, in your heart, it's like not the right fit, but you don't want to hurt their feelings.

    They got you to this point.

28. 32:11
    John Glon

    But now we're, hey, we want to grow and we might have outgrown you a little bit. Yeah, I think, well, one, like you said, I think we're all looking for the easy button, right? We do hard things, but that easy button sure makes life a lot better. Because there's one lesson, because we have all the other things in the organization that we're thinking about. So if I can actually take one thing off my mind, that's just, again, relief in some form or fashion to go, we think we're going to focus on something else.

    But reality is we're constantly going back then and doing that person's job for them or constantly questioning them or putting goalposts around them to help them get their job done, which is taking time away from everyone else. So what it really boils down to fundamentally is we try to find a spot for the person versus what do we actually need and being clear on what the role definition is, not about what we think we do today, not about what we think that person can do, but like finding in the right way, and there isn't a real easy way to do this if you don't know, but having people around you to know like, Hey, I'm trying to hire, we'll call it a, you know, your second in command or your, you know, whatever it is, right?

    The greater or whatever you want to call it. What do you really need that job to do? And being clear on what that means by taking things off your plate, right? Not just doing it to think we can try to fit it into sound, right? For the person who's sitting in the room that we think would fill that speed, that spot. What the hell do we really need in a year and 18 months from now strategically really doing in that seat so that they are functionally owning it for the company and really running the company.

    The more we can be honest with what that really means, we can have a real conversation with that person to say, I'm seeing these things. You don't have experience in this and this. Are you willing to go? We can talk about what it looks like right now. This doesn't seem like it fits your profile, but can we get you there and do you want to get there? Cause this is going to be a far different thing than you're doing today. Sometimes those, those conversations just work themselves out and they self-select.

    Yeah, you know what? That's more really responsibly than I really want. Let me go back down to here. That, that happens a lot of the time. Um, and I guess most of the time is just sticking true to what that those roles and responsibilities are, uh, is, is hard to do, but being real with it. I've made so many mistakes around trying to put, you know,

29. 34:32
    Wes Mathews

    mold the person into the role versus just, you know, this is what the role needs. And then honestly too, like selling everybody around me to buy into what I'm saying. And like, that's what we do. And then it, blows up, you know, it's a really good point. I mean, like what's a good takeaway for then somebody because what you just said is like, I just, I'm learning here, but like that really stuck out to me because it's like, okay, it's okay, Sally, like you're not ready for today, but here's the role for 18 months.

    Like, are you typically checking in as a leader with that person? Like, are you personally building them the roadmap or is this what I hear in my mind is like, I don't have time capacity. I got hired somebody like John to do it because we can get off this podcast. I'm not motivated to do it, but like everything else, like you said, it's like, all of a sudden now I get up and it's boom. And I'll get to that when I can. And then I prioritize things in my head and shove that down here.

    And then life, life happens.

30. 35:24
    John Glon

    Part of it is, is one is make sure is the leadership teams on the same page of what we really think we need as a role and responsibility. That's great. And that's the beauty of doing quarterly meetings, right? Having a strategy, whether you call it rocks as EOS, or we just call it simple priorities, have them own it. You can't want it more than they do. So put it on them. The person who thinks they want that job, if they do say, okay, put together a plan that's going to help you learn these things.

    I can't do this for you. I need you to show that you have it and want this thing. So put it on them. You can help them with like, Hey, if there's some leadership training or something like that, you come up with it, you research and you might have some things on your own, but say in order for you to fill that seat, I have to have you self do this. I, that's not something I have in my capacity. Or if you have, again, a large enough organization that you do have someone and it's not the founder having to do it, have someone mentor it and say, Hey, we'll do check-ins.

    I want you to do a six months picket, right? Whatever the timeframe you're looking for. Um, let's do a six month, put a six month plan together about how you're going to address all these things, um, where your shortcomings are. So make it that they own it. Um, again, sometimes these things, when you put it in that frame, then they're like, well, shit, I'm out. And that could be the, couldn't be the better. Couldn't be anything better. Cause you know, they know it.

31. 36:44
    Wes Mathews

    And then how do we put you in the right spot? If you're the right core value fit, how do we find you in the right spot? Well, I feel like, you know, as a, as a visionary entrepreneur myself, like who's, who's holding the visionary accountable, right? Like, yeah, I don't report to anybody, right? Like this is my company. Well, like at some point, I think when you buy into this concept of how do I become a better leader? How do I show up? It's like, you need help.

    I mean, if you're a good visionary, you want to grow, like you need help.

32. 37:13
    John Glon

    Yeah. And I think there's some different stages of companies and where they are. I think ultimately one thing that I do find fault in some operating systems and how people operate is they have the visionary or the CEO up here, and then they have COO or president or whatever down directly below. So there still is a hierarchy where I firmly believe. And with, with bloom growth, I think the real power, and we've, I think you've heard it numerous times, right? The visionary integrator duo, right? When you have that right fire power.

    And I think you guys, you know, that you guys have, you guys have that is they're side by side. So on an org chart on everything on responsibilities, it's a, it's a, the same, they're the same level. So it's not that the visionary is better or any worse, because quite frankly, that COO, that integrator is getting more work done than the visionary is, right? They're the ones actually running the company have done, right? So you've got the visionary and the integrator same page and the integrator is pushing like hell.

    And the integrator you have to be on the same page. It's the most important duo combination in the whole company because the visionary can still do their thing. Someone checking on them on it. And by the way, that takes some of the pressure off the visionary thinking they have to have all the everything is on their shoulders. But that to me is the, is a clear check. Number one, just within the organization, secondarily, right, there's all kinds of, you know, that's half of what I part of what I do is keeping the visionary not in check, but helping put mechanisms around them so where that that's not the rogue, hey, it's do as I say, say as I do here, I got this idea, we're going to go do it.

    It's making sure that there's that same page check in to know if now is the right time to be upset in this apple cart, or I think ultimately it comes down to how are we sharing that not liability, but how are we sharing the decision making process, I think is the biggest win or having a coach again, not just me, a growth coach, but just someone else that's the check in with you say it very nicely in my mind.

33. 39:18
    Wes Mathews

    It's like, okay, to face off with a visionary, it's like a UFC cage fight, right? The visionaries in the cage and like somebody's got to be able to get in that cage and spar with the visionary. Yeah. And I think oftentimes as a visionary, like nobody's nobody's going to step in that ring on your team because you're scary or whatever. Like you signed their check. The reality is right. But like somebody has got to be able to open that door and punch you in the face a little bit.

    Yeah. And like, yeah, like that's, that's how I, that's how I operate. Cause it's like, yeah, who's, how am I getting better? How am I sparring? You know, Hey, if you know, you think you're the toughest guy, like what does Mike Tyson say? Like whatever you're saying, you have a plan until you're punching the mouth, right? Like everything is good, but I left my right side open. He hit me. It's like, Oh, I didn't see that. Right. Like I think that's like the void you fill.

34. 40:08
    John Glon

    No, absolutely. Right. Because one visionaries need to be heard. Their ideas need to be, be felt out. If not, we can be the biggest detriment to the company. Again, cause I'm a visionary too, right? We come in, we're going to make this change. And then if you don't look back in three months to see if you should be doing something different, you're two years later, which is where again, a lot of my own shit comes from. Look back two years. I'm like, wow, I just buried the company.

    Cause we went into this and my stubbornness. But if we bear that, that conversation and they have someone to bounce things off of, and a lot of times it's just to be heard or just to get this off my mind and written out. And then you can be talked into like, okay, this, you're right. This isn't the right idea because you're just thinking of the big pie, but you haven't thought through all the steps potentially. And so just having someone and, and again, the, the best mechanism is just having finding the right, right hand man or woman that you guys can really have that conversation with together inside the company.

    Um, and it doesn't have to be a bashing to your point. Doesn't have to be like a in a cage fight. It's I'm hearing you. I'm going to hear you out,

35. 41:17
    Wes Mathews

    but here's why this shouldn't be happening right now. I just, yeah, I like to use extreme examples cause that's how I roll. Yeah. Sometimes I need to be punched in the hood or like somebody from the crowd throwing stuff at you. Right. I mean, it's, it's kind of, so with that being said, I could talk to you all day about this cause this is my, this is my jam, but if there's an entrepreneur or visionary, whomever that's struggling, right? I think it's, we've shared a lot.

    You've shared a lot deeply on this podcast and I appreciate it, but like, what's the easiest way for people to like to reach out to you, right? I mean, if they have a challenge or problem in a safe spot to kind of talk about this stuff, what's what, how do people contact you? Yeah.

36. 41:54
    John Glon

    One, my email is [email removed]. I'm on, you know, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook. Um, you know, those are the easiest way of my number two, four, eight, five, three, four, eight, five, zero, three, write it down, reach out to me. And really, you know, the, the, the best way is just be ready to tell the truth. And a lot of times, you know, the first step is having a chat with me and then being open to hearing those things with your team at some point. And we know we take it from there.

    You don't have to hire me, but we do a 90 minute meeting that is incredibly freeing and eyeopening for many leadership teams. That is just a part of the process to help get under the hood a little bit and see where you're, let your team tell you where they see some holes and it's supremely helpful.

37. 42:40
    Wes Mathews

    Well, awesome. And I hope some people take advantage of you. You're, you're a great resource. I've walked that path and I think as an entrepreneur, you can bring a lot to the table. So John, I appreciate it. Thank you so much for, for your time coming on in the share and going deep, man. I really appreciate you. See you soon. Thanks. This has been another episode of entrepreneur Intel. Thank you for joining us for show notes or other episodes. Please visit us at entrepreneurintel.com until next time.