Aligning Team Dynamics with Success

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1. 0:03
   Wes Mathews

   This is the unfiltered truth about entrepreneurship. Raw, no BS, no sugarcoating. Welcome to Entrepreneur Intel. I'm your host, Wes Mathews. Each episode, we'll learn from experienced founders and uncover the top 5% learnings that led to their success in all things personal, family, and business. This show is sponsored by Stealth Consulting, delivering clear marketing strategies, ROI, and no surprises. So I'm super excited for today's guest, first podcast of the new year for me. So that's kind of fun coming off a little break, but I want to introduce our first guest because, you know, from an entrepreneurial perspective, he started his company in 2012.

   So about 13 years ago, with nothing, which I love, because that's kind of everybody starts from nothing and it's super scary. And what about I think he's told me about a year later, only had about $5,000 and we're kind of worried about the future of the company. Because he put everything into his business. So I think, you know, for me as an entrepreneur, it's exciting when somebody just knows the vision, the passion, they go all in. And Jay Howard Luck, I want to introduce and he made a big bet on himself and the vision of the company.

   AccuMax Index has six employees and does over a million dollars of revenue. So very far away from 2012 and 2013. But Jay, welcome so much. Thanks so much for taking the time and coming on.

2. 1:30
   Jay Hawreluk

   Thanks, Wes. Thanks for having me.

3. 1:33
   Wes Mathews

   So I'm going to go back. Like I like to go back. I love getting in the head of entrepreneurs and, you know, what, what made you in 2012 go down this path, right? I know you've had a couple stints with entrepreneurship and maybe let's call it corporate. But what convicted you so much to go all in on this concept?

4. 1:52
   Jay Hawreluk

   Well, I think there were there were two reasons. Number one, I worked for a personality assessment company and I was very successful there. But some of the things they taught, I truly questioned, you know, the concepts were 40, 50 years old. And at the time they came out, they were brilliant. But the test of time didn't really stand up to that, you know, so I kind of questioned that. And I did get a little tired of beating my head against the corporate wall, you know, probably won't say we need to change this.

   Well, you know, I put it under committee review. And if they agree with it, then maybe next year, two years or three years. And secondarily, I've been involved with an organization called Bistage. I had involved with them in 2001. And I kiddingly say it was from hanging out from all those entrepreneurs. I got the entrepreneurial problem. You caught it? I did, you know, I mean, because Bistage is pretty much an organization of entrepreneurs. And I learned an awful lot from a financial perspective and a marketing perspective and to get a company going.

   So I would say this is probably those two reasons that really kind of catapulted me into taking the full jump of becoming an entrepreneur.

5. 3:13
   Wes Mathews

   So educate me a bit, right. So AccuMax Index, to me, right, like in my entrepreneurial experience, I'm familiar with Colby. I think a lot of entrepreneurs are familiar with Colby. There's disc. There's something that I've learned about locally that somebody just created. And my experience with this behavioral assessments or from a business perspective, it's, you know, if I can learn and understand about somebody, like a potential employee, because in my first company, like I became an entrepreneur like you, I kind of just dove in and did it.

   And I didn't realize, like, at some point, I was gonna have to hire people. And then I started to interview people, which by the way, I'm just completely horrible at all of this. But, you know, people show up to an interview, right? And they're giving 100%. And they're showing up and they really want the job. And they kind of tell you everything you want to hear. But to my understanding is, you know, the assessments really get you to understand who this individual is at the core from an interview perspective.

   But there was also a period in my company where I made some investments to understand how people get along in teams, etc. So can you educate us on that? Because I have a little experience with Colby. I hear a lot of people reference disc. Can you just talk about AccuMax Index and what that is at the core?

6. 4:40
   Jay Hawreluk

   Well, the majority of personality assessments in the marketplace, Colby disc, are based in the social sciences, or the observable behavior of people. We are groundbreaking as we are based in the neural sciences in the 18 to 24 month period after any human being on the planet is born. Certain chemicals come together in the brain, and they create specific neural pathways. Now, there's millions of pathways that are created during this time period that control all sorts of functions. What we measure for is how they apply to business and relationships.

   And let's face it, business is nothing but relationships. So it's a deeper dive into an individual, because behavior changes over time, due to external elements, you know, I kind of kiddingly do this, but I'll ask people, you know, do you have kids? And did you go through the terrible twos? And everybody always raises their hand. And the reason being is your neural pathways are the purest at that point in time, they haven't been inundated yet by external things. So what I mean by external things, well, you know, where I'm born, upbringing, education, age and maturity, it's why you don't behave the same way today as you did when you were 18.

   Alright, so it's a deep dive into an individual, but your wiring is static, it stays with you throughout your entire lifetime. It tells us the environment in which you best thrive. It's why businesses will hire two candidates, same background, same skill set. One's a rock star, the other one's a rock. Why? It's all in the wiring. You know, one is wired to perform that role. Well, one is not. And our minds are powerful, it can make us do things that are against our innate wiring. However, that's negative stress, you know, there's positive stress for a deadline or getting a project off the ground.

   But that's negative stress. And the longer an individual has negative stress, the more it can have a negative outcome on them, emotionally, mentally or even physically. You know, I went into a company one time, and one of the executives twisting himself totally inside out, extremely de-energized. And I looked at him and I said, I don't really want to, you know, scare you or concern you. But gosh, you know, you're a candidate for a heart attack. And he looked at me, he said, I've been back at work two weeks, I had one six weeks ago.

   Well, so those are the negatives. When you align somebody in the environment, based upon their wiring, they're happier, they're more productive. They're a positive contributor to the organization, they usually need less oversight. You know, because the reality of it is, as business people, where do we spend our time? With the problem children, not the farmers, the problem children, that's a standard thing. So, you know, when you hire that way, your chance of success skyrockets, and you eliminate a lot of the internal things that can occur.

   You know, what do I mean? Well, you know, when somebody's not a wiring fit for their job, they're oftentimes a turnover issue in an organization. They're oftentimes a problem child. So you can eliminate that and kind of align people in the, because as people have wiring, jobs have wiring. And when you match the two, the chance of success skyrockets. Standard hiring gives you about a 40% hit rate, which means four out of every 10 candidates you hire will perform as expected from data hire, means 60% will not.

   All right. Using an assessment such as this, it over doubles it takes to about 85%. You know, because somebody could have the right background, the right skill set, the right wiring, but you know, if they're going to the casino every night, staying out till 2am, it's gonna be tough to be sharpened on the job at 8am in the morning.

7. 8:57
   Wes Mathews

   No, I appreciate you saying that, because that was gonna be my first question that's, you know, a lot of companies are like, well, let me just, you know, go with my gut, or I think as an entrepreneur, I think one of my challenges as a visionary entrepreneur, and many entrepreneurs, they do go with their gut, right? Again, they go to an interview, somebody shows up, says exactly what they want to hear, and they take a risk. But if you start to think about those numbers in the sense of, you know, do I want to be 40% right?

   Or do I want to be 80% right? And this is a tool and something that can kind of take the emotion away from it, and tell me that. And for me, I'm an emotional guy, right? And I'm like, so what's interesting, what I want to mention really quick, but then I want to go back is I took the index, I personally did it. And when I did it, the questions I answered, I thought were just like preliminary questions to get me to the test. And I think I did it in like, I don't know, a couple minutes or something, cuz I was like, ready to sit down to do it.

   And it's like, you're completed. And I go, there's no way I go, there is absolutely no way this test is going to mirror me or tell me who I am. I honestly can say I think it was like 100% accurate in telling me who I am at the core, like it kind of it blew my mind. Because I think often too, as an entrepreneur, you start thinking Colby disk, I still don't understand disks, people throw out acronyms all the time. And I'm like, I don't I don't know what that means.

   Your tools is so simple to understand. And again, I want to really talk about that, you know what, I don't know what the average median salary is, or what the total cost of an employee is. I'm sure you have way better data points than I do. But if you're hiring somebody for $100,000 a year, taxes, insurance, and all these different things and time to ramp up, you're probably really all in for 130,000 140,000. Yeah. And if you're telling me that your tool like can double my success rate, right, and kind of take the emotion out of who we're hiring, man, the numbers are that that's a good way to kind of add something like this into a hiring process.

   Because that's that's a lot of revenue.

8. 11:17
   Jay Hawreluk

   Well, the beauty of our system is, number one, we're statistically validated, which is what you have to be to be used in the pre screening process. We're EEOC compliant, you don't apply for it, you just have to be it, which means basically, you don't discriminate or tilt toward or against any protected class. So the beauty of our program is we're company specific. So, you know, you go in, we go into the organization, we will survey individuals, high performers will create position profiles from and then you can screen them.

   That the test, we say it takes five minutes to complete, but every hash our average completion time is under four minutes. And so with the press of a button, I can see how well they match. If they match, I bring them in for an interview. If they don't match, I pass on. So it saves you time and money in the recruitment process. It's also very informative. Because if you have a candidate who doesn't complete the survey, those are usually the people that schedule interviews and don't show up.

   You know, so I mean, it's kind of like, people calls and say, well, you know, we really like this candidate, but they didn't complete survey past, they're not that interested. And then we also have interview questions that are specific to that wiring pattern. Because when you bring somebody in like, Wes, if I brought you and I already know a lot about you, I don't know you personally, but I do know your wiring. But we also specific questions that and the reason for we developed these questions was, there's no good honesty assessment in the marketplace.

   There really isn't. And here's a shocker for entrepreneurs out there. Candidates will sometimes fib. I read a quote once and it was great said, if all the improvements that occurred on resumes actually occurred in the marketplace, our GDP would be 10% a year. And job interviews can be Academy Award winning performances. Oh, yeah. So we you know, the questions are designed to a deep dive. Is the person self aware of who they are? Are they telling the truth? You know, if I may use you as an example, absolutely use me.

   If I said, are you a team player? What I would expect to hear based on your wiring is, Jay, under certain circumstances, if I can build the team, manage the team, run the team, I'm a team player. If I just have to be part of the team, I can do it. But I'm really not that engaged. That would be an honest answer. If you came back and said, hey, I'm team, Wesley t is my middle initial team, that's me 100% team, it would put up a red flag.

   So you know, it does help you get a deeper dive into an individual for their self awareness, and if they're telling the truth.

9. 14:20
   Wes Mathews

   So I want to put a pin on that, because I love all that. But I feel like we I got to go back to 2020 12 real quick. Why? Why as an entrepreneur, what led you down this path?

10. 14:33
    Jay Hawreluk

    Well, I while I was working for another organization, it was a behavioral assistance assessment based on the social sciences. I got interested in the neural sciences and neural sciences are actually a growing field. So I started to do research into the neural sciences. And I thought to myself, there's no real instrument out here that measures innate human wiring. So I started to do the research on it. And then I made a decision that I was going to leave my employer and follow through on this. So I left, I had a one year non solicitation that I honored.

    During that time period, I worked on this, you know, I worked on it. And frankly, you know, Facebook was kind of handy, because I talked to people I had talked to since high school 3540 years ago, you know, and so I started working on it. And at first, I made a big mistake. I tried to do everything. And it came out as garbage. So then I said, well, I'm just going to focus on one drive individually. And then once I had statistics on that one drive for and then I did all four, then I put them together.

    And I actually went into organizations and said, Hey, look, I want to survey your team, I'll give you all the reports, I'll give you everything. Just let me survey them. And then let me interview them. And so during the interview process, sometimes I would say the person just as they are. Other times, I would say, you know, well, you know, Wes, you really like a team environment. You're pretty introverted. And you really like a process and you like lots of detail on what's looking equal. What are you crazy?

    That's not me. Show the report and said read this. So I would do it a couple of different ways. I went into, I don't know how many organizations, I got hundreds of hundreds of hundreds of surveys, was extremely time consuming, but it was very important to make sure that it was valid and correct. So I went and did all of that for a year. And then late in 2012, I worked with an IT contractor to develop our first software package. And so on October 1, we opened it, we had very, very basic software.

    We had two reports, position matching, and that was it. Now we have 18 different reports. And I opened it up. And I had no clients, pretty much no money left at that point in time. And I had a vision. And, you know, just probably the advice I could give to anybody is when you have a vision, just be persistent in it, you know, you're gonna have roadblocks, things aren't going to work out your way. But you got to be persistent in it. And you just got to continue to do for John.

11. 17:45
    Wes Mathews

    It's great. It's great advice. I mean, because I think the one thing that I hear from you and what we've talked about is just you were convicted on your vision. And I think as an entrepreneur, like if you're not bought into your vision, you're gonna have a rough time because you're going to fail, you're going to make massive mistakes with everything, right? So can you talk about that a little bit? Because I think I'm very interested in the sense of, you know, as an entrepreneur, right, like you, you found a gap in the market, you want to create something, but you took a big leap, like hiring a company to build something out that's in your brain versus like what's already in the open market, right?

    Because I don't know what was going on in that world in 2012, 2013. But there is like disc, I'm sure there's other assessments out there that are in the marketplace. Like, how did you think about that when you entered into this new vision on how you're going to compete to stand out of the crowd?

12. 18:36
    Jay Hawreluk

    Well, because we're based in the neurosciences, you know, and we measure innate human wiring, that was our huge differentiator in the marketplace. I realize there's competition, you know, but only these 28% of organizations actually use a hiring assessment. So that means that 72% do not. And there's a huge, you know, number of businesses in this organization. So I looked at the market and said, there's a lot of room in this marketplace for us. And I think people will embrace the human wiring aspect because we're unique, we're different, we give a deep dive.

    That's why we're so incredibly correct. And one of the things that I noticed about many assessments is they slant toward or against someone. Alright, so ours is completely objective. We look at somebody's strengths, we look at their limitations, everybody's got them. There's no perfect wiring pattern. So everybody's got them. So being objective, and looking at strengths and limitations of an individual, number one, it creates huge amounts of buy in, you know, and number two, we're not slanting toward or against anyone. Because the ideal profile you need is the profile for the job.

    And so when somebody reads their results, they have to feel positive about who they are, you know, not negative about who they are. So those were a couple of opportunities that I saw in the marketplace and took advantage of.

13. 20:22
    Wes Mathews

    So help me understand, right, if I have, you know, an entrepreneur that's listening, or, you know, you've got a lot of companies that have a handful of people, they might be interested in hiring two to four people this year, right? They've identified some seats within their organization. Is it, you know, I hook up with AcuMax Index. And, you know, I'm educating myself on how to use the platform so I can do the assessments. Is it companies hire you direct to handle that entire process? Or is a little bit of both and you guys kind of serve kind of meeting clients where they're at?

14. 20:59
    Jay Hawreluk

    No, what we do is, what our program is, it's an unlimited usage program. And the reason it's an unlimited usage program is because you want to screen candidates. Because if you say, okay, Wes, I'll give you five surveys, Wes is gonna pick five people and they could all be horrible for the job. And we say no, so we say no, no, it's unlimited surveys. You run through that. We teach you the concepts. We've made it very easy. A lot of assessments out there require an awful lot of training.

    We instead have said, okay, we're going to enhance our software, put the training down to a minimum, so you understand the basics. But if I want to know Wes's sales style, I can press a report on that. If I want to know what proactive and responsive drives, I can get a report on that. What social and task orientation I can get a report on that. So we've increased the usage of the software to decrease the amount of time for training. Some of our competitors, it may be two or three days that you have to train.

    We do it in about three hours, spent about three, three and a half hours, but over a couple of days. And then we provide unlimited consulting to the client. During that term, our programs run for one year, you'll get a positive ROI with one hire. And then we work with you. And so we want you to learn this. I mean, one of my goals is I want my clients to know this well, we have probably 50% of our client base that knows this stone cold, follows the process.

    You know, we rarely ever hear from them if we do is kind of like a touch in, hey, how you doing? But they believe in it. And I probably one of the biggest things when a new company embraces us is you have to trust it. And we have clients that don't, you know, I mean, we'll get emails, you know, there was a guy who was a red match, but we hired him anyway. And we just had to fire him. And, you know, the response is always, well, kind of we're glad you did it.

    That way you show some validity, but now follow our process. And you'll get great hiring results. I mean, we have companies that have virtually no turnover. Other than maybe retirement or somebody moving out of the state. We've worked with large organizations that have 95 100% turnover that's down to 60%. They say, wow, 60% still awfully high, not compared to 100%. So you're saving money in that aspect. And when you're small, especially every higher counts, a large organization, you'd have a bad hire, they can hide for a while.

    But in a small organization, every higher counts. And if you hire the wrong person, at that point in time, it just, it just costs you time and money in frustration.

15. 24:08
    Wes Mathews

    Do you feel like, you know, so obviously, as you're talking to like, new customers, new potential customers, right, they've obviously hired or they have staff. And I would imagine part of the problem is like, hey, Jay, I've got X amount of employees, I'm speculating some things around a couple, like, do you rerun assessments based on who's there today? And get involved? Or, you know, how does that work? Because I assume, you're not everybody's coming to you fresh out of the gate. It's like, hey, here, here we are.

    Here's the challenges. How would we get started? So for example, like my organization, we have we have a team of nine. And then we have some hiring needs going into this year. How do you begin an engagement with a client that makes the most sense? Well, the first thing we do with a new client is say survey everybody,

16. 25:00
    Jay Hawreluk

    whether they're a high performer or an under performer, because it's data. So you survey everyone. Now, if we have enough of a sampling set, we can create position called files from that objective data. The reality of it is three things happen when a company brings us in. Number one, you'll have under performers who will perform better because you know how to properly motivate them. Motivators are the innate things a wiring pattern needs. They transcend money. All right. So, you know, for example, in your case, if I hired you and micromanaged you to death, you'd be miserable.

    You want freedom and autonomy. You know, say, Jay, you know, show me the end zone, but let me get there and judge me when I get there. Yeah. So we have under performers who will perform better because you know how to properly motivate them. One size motivation techniques never work because they fail on 70, 80% of the population. Number two, you'll have some square pegs and round holes. We say, you know what, I never thought about, but this person would be better fit over here. And lastly, and the reality of it is sometimes you have to give people the opportunity to excel at another company.

    And, but I'm all about the growth of the organization and the health of the organization. We started working with companies that had 10, 12 employees that have over a hundred today. You know, one company we started working with eight years ago had 35 employees. They have a 185 today. And they follow our process. And that's kind of the critical thing. I will get emails from the CEO at times. And every time I get an email, I know it's somebody who doesn't fit the role, but he likes them.

    But I give him a lot of credit. When I say no, he, he won't continue on with them.

17. 26:57
    Wes Mathews

    So in your mind then, right? Like you're the, you're the guy behind the curtain and you have so much knowledge in this, is it, can you pretty much predict or yeah, those emails that come back? It's just people hiring against the model or like it's basically telling them, don't do that. They do that. You know, the outcome that's going to happen. I mean,

18. 27:18
    Jay Hawreluk

    we have a pretty good idea, you know, but one of the things we really stress is we're here to save you time and money. All right. If you're not completely bought in, we understand, but follow our process. Because if you continuing to do the same thing over and over again, Einstein's definition of insanity, you brought us in to do something different. So let's do something different, but follow that new process. And I think we've probably gotten better over the years of really stressing that to the clients and saying, I know what your gut may tell you what your gut you were used before.

    And that created some very negative hiring. So follow our process.

19. 28:04
    Wes Mathews

    Yeah, I think you're pretty dialed in. I think you said 40%. Like my guts got me into a lot of problems over the past, right? I think that, you know, I think one of my challenges as a visionary, there was a time and period I actually had to get out of the hiring process. Because every single person I would interview, like I just fell in love with and I'm like, yep, that's the person like bring him in. And then two weeks later, I'm like, what is going on?

    I wish I would have met you 15 years ago. Like who do you best get along with? Right? I mean, is your product for entrepreneurial companies? Is it for enterprise? Is it for all of the above? If there's a hiring element, you know, that your solution needs to be part of it? Well, you know, we deal with companies that employ people.

20. 28:54
    Jay Hawreluk

    So we're in probably 80 different industries right now. We deal with companies that employ people and from small organizations to large organizations. I mean, we have clients that have 3000 employees. We also have clients that have eight employees or five employees or two employees. And we adjust our pricing based on the size of the organization. So we're very, very affordable to them. So, you know, that probably the most successful clients are those that understand the value of a process. Those that understand the value of a process do much better.

    Now, a lot of companies are going towards a process. You know, there's a lot of companies out there that are teaching the structure of organizations and how to assign rocks and develop an actual process. So it's becoming better knowledge in the marketplace of the value of a process. You know, I mean, to scale an organization, you need repeatable processes. So

21. 30:05
    Wes Mathews

    do you feel that for me, and again, I think what really excites me and makes me really interested in you and Acumex index, it's how accurate it was when I took it. And I really didn't feel on the other end taking it that I was actually doing anything. And I get to the point of your like, I don't know if it was you or one of your team members are like, no, you took the test. I'm like, no, no, no, it was like a little survey.

    I think it was the questionnaire prior to I didn't get it. And you're like, no, you got it. And then when we met, you were like, laughing at me because you could like describe me to the T and I'm like, yep. So like how, how, as an entrepreneur, like listening to this, or I highly recommend it. I mean, it's just one of those things that as a visionary entrepreneur, which is most of my sphere of influence of people, we're emotional people. You know, you could probably describe who I am to the T based on the assessment you gave.

    And my guts good, but my gut can also lead me down the wrong path sometimes of like delusion. And so is your is your product then good. So in the entrepreneurial world that I my experiences, you know, visionaries are good process people. But you have like a COO or somebody within the organization that can kind of keep the train on the rails. Like who do you best work with inside an organization? Is it you know, the visionary until there's HR people involved or like an operator or who do you typically cling on to that makes us the best the best success?

22. 31:37
    Jay Hawreluk

    It's two areas. And you know, number one, we do work with human resources because they're responsible for hiring. So oftentimes we'll go into an organization, usually a little more established organization, work with HR to standardize their hiring. And then we work with senior leadership, because it's important to get that buy in. You know, so you there's kind of a twofold approach. Now, if it's a small organization that doesn't have an HR department, we work immediately with senior leadership. But you got to get the buy in of senior leadership.

    Why? Because of the reasons you just stated, you know, the CEOs. I really like this person over here. And they're just a rock star. Well, they're a horrible match. So you want to get that buy in for them and understand the value. I mean, I kiddingly say this, but there's a lot of truth. If turnover and underperformance were line items on a balance sheet, we'd have clients lined up down because it costs money. And people are oftentimes they said, well, you know, $100,000 employee, I read it cost me $500,000 to replace them.

    That's not really true. It probably isn't. But it costs at least one time salary. And if you hire the wrong person and they're only there for 90 days, it's like opening up the window and throwing out money for those 90 days.

23. 33:05
    Wes Mathews

    And your time and your time and investment, right? So to me, it's like you got to take the time to onboard somebody and have patience and transfer that institutional knowledge. And as talking to you as an entrepreneur, it's like, man, if I have somebody in that seat, that's just, they're just not gonna get it. If I knew that in the beginning, I wouldn't invest a minute trying to pass that knowledge on, right? So yeah, I mean, it's an interesting concept or an interesting idea that you talk about because people talk about it and they throw it around, but they don't take it serious.

    And there's a real cost. I mean, if I go back to our last company and how many employees we had and the challenges we had, oh my gosh, like I would say we were probably 25% right. And just the time energy effort, the cost that we burned through probably in the tunes of millions and millions of dollars. So Jay, I, I love recommending companies that I use and believe in. And again, I just go back to like when we met and you were like laughing at me and describe me and you were like describing it because I just couldn't believe that it was such a simple test because I think that oftentimes entrepreneurs get like scared and overwhelmed.

    Like there's Colby and again, they're a little bit different, but in the same sort of like world Colby is kind of complicated. Disk is complicated. Even when I read that stuff, I'm like, man, it's kind of maybe I'm not smart enough. Like I'm a one plus one is two kind of guy, but they just seem complicated to like implement into our workflow. But for what you have is just so easy, like how, you know, there's got to be an entrepreneur listening that's like, man, I'm just tired of burning through people.

    Is it me? Is it them? Is it whatever? Like, what's the easiest way for somebody to kind of dip their toe in or learn a little bit more about what it is that you guys are offering? Because I believe in a ton and I wish more entrepreneurs would take advantage of it and use it.

24. 35:04
    Jay Hawreluk

    Well, normally when we engage with the prospect, the first thing we do is have them take the survey. And there's two reasons. Number one, oftentimes people are like, are you sure it's only five minutes? So it'd be like, here, do it for yourself. Just like you did, do it for yourself. And then second of all, we'll go over the results and you can judge the validity of the results for yourself. Because when I first met you, I didn't know you, you know, I mean, we had a quick conversation.

    I didn't know. Then you did the survey. So then wow, it is fast and quick and easy, which is a key when you're using that in the pre hire selection process. Yeah. Because we have an assessment that takes 20 minutes or 30 minutes. A lot of candidates are like, I'm not going to do this. But five minutes. And then second of all, to judge the validity of the results. Then we start to consult and say, okay, what are you looking to do? You know, are you looking to reduce turnover?

    Are you looking to improve your sales force? Because companies have different reasons for it. And that's usually the area will attack first. So if they have high turnover, we'll attack that first. If they're struggling in sales, we'll attack that, you know, actually turnover in sales are probably our two biggest reasons that people incorporate us. Yeah, I could see that, right?

25. 36:28
    Wes Mathews

    Because I agree. I think sales is probably the hardest, one of the hardest departments to fill.

26. 36:35
    Jay Hawreluk

    Well, and there's a reason, you know, there's sales hunters and their sales farmers. That's just the reality. Now, our sales people born or made sales people are born. Sales skill is made. You know, you could have a great winery pattern for sales. But if I don't have any sales skill, but it's easier to teach skill, it's impossible to teach wiring. So in the marketplace, there's probably six farmers for every hunter. And farmers tell you all the right things. Farmers do great with existing clients. So get additional business out of existing clients, but they're not going to go hunt down things.

    In a job interview, you've got a farmer there. Will you do? Oh, man, I'm going to gold call and I'm going to generate so much business. And then, you know, after there are six months, it's like, well, you haven't generated any business. Well, that's because they have to take care of this customer, this customer and this customer. So you get excuses. Hunters are the ones that develop new business. Now, when you have a hunter, one of the key aspects of let them develop and get that new business, but then turn it over to a farmer for services, farmers will do a much better job.

    So we oftentimes can realign that is in many organizations, you may need one hunter supported by two or three farmers. So when they make that initial develop that new business, they can turn it over to somebody that can nurture it.

27. 38:05
    Wes Mathews

    So what's really interesting for me talking to you, like, you know, that's so well. And I think a lot of entrepreneur entrepreneurs, either they're a hunter themself or they're a farmer, right? And they create a lot of delusion in their own mind. And I think what you're doing can save a lot of time, headache, create a lot of clarity. Because what I've noticed too, and I don't know, like I was born in 1981. And I feel like, you know, now, as our clientele, like things are changing, like these generations that I can't label them Gen Z X or whatever that is.

    But we spent some time yesterday with, she was in her late 20s. And she was just describing like her sphere of influence and what her age brackets into. It was like blowing my mind. Like I couldn't even believe half the stuff she was saying and just how in terms of buying houses and jobs and just their thought process, do you find that your tool, I would think it's even more important now than it's ever been. But have you tried, have you had to make modifications around that?

    Or is it just, hey, the wiring's the wiring and it just doesn't change?

28. 39:16
    Jay Hawreluk

    The wiring's the wiring, it doesn't change because people ask, you know, well, is Gen Z wired differently than millennials know? There are different external things, technologies advanced, you know, I mean, gosh, you know, I mean, you were born in 1981, I was born in 1956. So I've seen, you know, well, you've seen it too, you know, the advent of fax machines and how they went away, you know, they were the hottest thing in the world there for a while. Um, but technology changes. So because of that, how I view the world changes.

    You know, when I, when I first got into business, everything was paper, you had to have paper copies of everything and files and, you know, now we're completely paperless, you know, so, but that's just part of the evolution of technology and the evolution in the environment. Well, wiring's wiring, you know, millennials and Gen Z's and baby boomers and Gen X's, you know, they're all wired the same. Um, it's just their outlook, how they view the world is different. That's great. Um,

29. 40:31
    Wes Mathews

    yeah, really interesting stuff. Would you do me a favor? So some people that enjoy the podcast or like my entrepreneurial sphere of influence. So if they reach out to you, like number one, I want to know how people can get a hold of you because I think you can make a massive impact on their business. But if they want to run an assessment for themselves to see it, because I think it's, you know, once you see it, you can't unsee it. Right. I think as an entrepreneur, if they take your test, how can people do that?

    Like, how can people get in contact with you or even run an assessment just to get a taste of what you're doing? Oh, there's two ways.

30. 41:04
    Jay Hawreluk

    Number one, you can go directly to our website, www.acumaxindex.com or you can email me direct. And that's [email removed]. Either way, if you go through the website, you'll deal with one of my consultants. They're all very skilled.

31. 41:38
    Wes Mathews

    Uh, or you can email me direct and say, Hey, I listened to Wes's podcast and I'd like to do a complimentary survey and we'll send that right out for you. And we'll include that in all the notes here too. That way people have a reference, but Jay, thank you so much for taking the time. Uh, in your staff's lovely to your company is really awesome. You guys are providing a really great solution. I encourage everybody to take you up on that because I think it's a real simple eye opener.

    It can change your company overnight. So Jay, thanks so much for the time. I really appreciate it. Uh, keep doing what you're doing. Thank you so much. Thank you, Wes. It's been an absolute pleasure. I've really enjoyed doing it today. You do a great job hosting a podcast, by the way. Thank you so much, Jay. Appreciate it. This has been another episode of entrepreneur Intel. Thank you for joining us for show notes or other episodes. Please visit us at entrepreneurintel.com until next time.